Astrologer Asks Jon Stewart For His Birth Time

Part of the problem is who Rodden went after toward the end of her life. The whole Astrodatabank database is skewed toward older people, and there is no longer a central collection point that is actively maintained. We need this, or we’ll soon be returning to the old days of unattributed data. Rodden was the turning point — before Lois, data attribution was sloppy and actual research was nonexistent. After Lois, we began taking the process more seriously.

One thing I’ve noticed is that since microfilm gave way to computers, many 60s, 70s and 80s births don’t have times on the replacement certificates. Hospitals have closed and/or merged and/or been taken over by megacorps; birth certificates are harder to get; and I think that as the 70s became the 80s, many people have taken astrology less seriously, viewing it as a kind of ‘period thing’ related to Linda Goodman.

I never miss the chance to ask a celeb I have contact with for their birth time. Some I publish, some I don’t — but I am happy to entertain proposals for collaboration on articles, or use of data in my files.

Part of what we need to do is establish our credibility and use the data ethically. The more people see we care, and are sensitive in their chart readings, the more freely they will give it.

@kristina: i agree, most people don’t know their birth time. i don’t for example, and it’s a constant frustration (especially for a virgo wanting an exact astrology chart), not knowing if your ascendant is sag or scorp.

Hi, Chris, I, too, have been concerned that finding accurate birth times for notables is becoming less and less of a community concern in our field. Here’s what I believe is happening:

1) Lois Rodden made birth information her passion and spent decades spearheading the search for information from birth certificates and other reliable sources. She had a variety of helpers who participated. Now she and many of her regular helpers have passed on.

2)The next stage was that the founder of AstroDataBank, Mark whose last name escapes me at the moment, took the collection and turned it into a brilliant and invaluable software program with periodic updates, corrections, and additions of birthdata. The program was never a money-maker and eventually he sold it to someone who kept it going and updated for a few years.

3)Eventually, it sold to AstroDienst, and they put the data collection online for free use. (The research function,however, is not included, and is really valuable.)

4) Now nobody in particular is coordinating or encouraging data collection to some central place, so it just isn’t happening.

5)AND it is no longer possible to get birth certificates of notables from the Vital Statistics Bureaus due to our fear of IDENTITY THEFT.

So, I fear that the quality of birth data will gradually diminish and that we won’t have birth information on younger and newer celbrities and newsmakers. A shame! Lois Rodden was one of my heroes and it’s too bad we’re losing ground on her standards for birth data. Donna Cunningham

Even if the celebrity gives their birth time, I’d be suspicious. Bill Gates has been asked in public several times and he always gives a different answer. No one knows why, but being a very private person, he’s probably politely evading the question. If they tell you a birth time, where is that coming from?

Good point Rhonda. Good to see you here! I didn’t know that about Gates, but that was one of the stories going around during the last presidential election in the US, that Hilary may be actively giving out false data because she didn’t want people to know. Then of course there was a whole debacle over Kerry’s data during the previous election. This will probably only get worse as time goes on, as more people realize why someone would want to know that information.

Hello Chris & Company,
For some background, a birth time has been required, by all states, since around 1900. Hospital birth records are always sent on to the state’s Vital Records department, usually in the state capital, but New York City has its own bureau at – if memory serves – 125 Worth Street, lower Manhattan. Other big cities might be similar.

If I’m not mistaken, Lois Rodden had contacts in various state capitals that would get her birth data, under the counter. This was the result of her own hard work over the decades, making contacts. Data was important to her.

Actual get-your-hands-dirty research might give results. Most births are announced in a local newspaper, these announcements sometimes include the time of birth. Microfiche of these papers are often kept by local libraries.

So far as Stewart is concerned, I wanted to start a new feature in my weekly newsletter, the Chart of the Week. I picked Stewart for the first one because he’s popular and, heck, he’s funny.

But then I found his birth data was a can of worms. No less than three purported birth places, two in Jersey, one in NYC. So I thought, okay, I’ll have a stab at rectifying it. I rectify by trait. Stewart is bright, he’s witty, he’s on TV every day. To me, that’s third house, or maybe the 9th, I dunno.

If our astrology is any good, we ought to be able to do this. Take a well-known person with an unknown time of birth, and put a floor under him. Give him a rising sign. Argue our position.

In Stewart’s case, he’s a new Moon Sagittarius. Sun & Moon together. That’s going to make an impact in some specific house. So what house does Stewart best express? Fifth? Eighth? Tenth? First? Third? Maybe third.

Which would give him a Libra rising. Libra rising, ruled by Venus in Scorpio, retrograde. Venus double-debilitated, the gate-keeper to Stewart’s chart. That’s going to be a sore point!

Then we notice that Mars in Leo rules Venus in Scorpio, and that the two are square. In a Libra rising chart, that Mars is in the 11th, of “friends”.

On Stewart’s Wiki page it says he was bullied as a child. That was more than 30 years ago. It must have been pretty intense to get mentioned in Wiki all those many years later.

Could Mars in 11 be bullies? In Sakoian & Acker I read, “With an afflicted Mars here, disagreements or quarrels with friends & group associations are probable.” (the hardcover, pg. 160)

If that’s true, then as Mars has two affinities with Venus (square, and ruling it), Mars would tend to beat up on Venus. Especially as Venus, ruling Stewart’s ascendant, represented Stewart himself. Could Venus “fight back”? Launch a charm offensive? No, it’s retrograde. Charm isn’t something Stewart has a lot of, surprisingly.

Using the Libra rising chart, how did Stewart feel about that? Venus is in the second house, of values. Getting beat up made Stewart feel worthless. First house ruler in the second: You are your values.

Elsewhere I read that Stewart and his father haven’t spoken in decades, though they both work in Manhattan, probably within blocks of each other. Why is this?

The Libra rising chart has Capricorn on the 4th, of the father. That’s not a very cheery thought. Ruled by Saturn in Aquarius, which is more or less in the 5th. Which is the second of the daddy’s. Daddy’s values were quirky. Saturn is widely opposite Mars, which was in the sign of Saturn’s debility. Which mean Saturn – Daddy – had no interest in Stewart’s friends. With Capricorn on the 4th house cusp, I get the impression daddy left his son to fend for himself. Well, they’re his friends. He should be able to deal with them. – Which Stewart neither forgot, nor forgave.

Such is an analysis of Jon Stewart’s chart, and an example of the sheer power of astrology. Why doesn’t Stewart answer the question & give us his birth time? Because if my rectification is correct, his childhood was a nightmare he is still trying to run away from. I found myself poking at a very open wound. Not at all what I had hoped for.

If Rodden were alive and handed you a 2:00 am-ish birth time, would anyone have thought to actually do anything with it? What good is accurate data if it’s not used? Jon Stewart, November 28, 1962.

As for myself, I was deeply embarrassed to be an intruder.

David R. Roell
AstroAmerica.com

Hello NR,

Alphee Lavoie has software that uses progressions/solar arcs to come up with likely ascendants. Which is the accident approach. A lot of people use accidents (eg, transiting events) for rectification. I think you can “prove” a rectification with accidents, but I am skeptical you can make a rectification using accidents, as there are so many different ways of making accidents work. (No rectification is ever finally proved, they are always speculative.)

A better grasp of delineation and you can pit character analysis against accidents. This afternoon I was writing up notes on an AFA show, scheduled for September, on Traditional Astrology. Chris is one of the speakers, which is why I was looking at his site today & chanced across the notes on Stewart. Traditional Astrology will give you a lot of the same tools that I work with. I suspect I’m making better use of them than they are, but that might be my own bluster talking.

Dave

Hello NR,

Rectification happens spontaneously when you have a chart with no time and you want to know more about it !!! Frustration drives you on.

Rectification is like riding a bicycle. You fall off a lot at first. To do what I do you need a good grasp of the houses, what they mean. Carter is good for that, as are Robson, Sakoian & Acker, Alan Oken, March & McEvers, etc.

Once you think you have a grasp of that, remember that the sun is the strongest planet in most every chart (but not Libra nor Aquarius). Considering a chart with an unknown birth time, what house does their sun best express? In other words, what’s the driving force in their life? Money? That’s the 2nd. Other people’s money (other people’s affairs)? Thats’s the 8th. Are they religious nuts or spend all their time day-dreaming in books? That’s the 9th. Do they change with every new girlfriend? That’s the 7th. Are they workaholics or hypochondriacs? That’s the 6th. Girls-girls-girls? Try the 5th. Patriotic? That’s the 4th. Busy, busy busy, or very literate: The third. Themselves first & foremost of all? The first. Spend all their time in public? That’s 10. Live for their friends rather than themselves? That’s 11. Or are they a plain puzzle, like my father. Don’t know anything about them? That’s the 12th. A sneaky one.

In every case, the affairs of the house will be expressed by the sign the sun is in. Sun in Aries will be dynamic in whatever house it finds itself in. Sun in Leo will strut about & put himself first, regardless of house. Sun in Virgo is looking for details. Details about what? Money? (2) The house he lives in? (4) His girlfriend’s affairs? (7) How to better impress strangers? (10). Etc.

Which is how it goes. Look at the timed charts you have, see if this is not true.

Dave

Hello NR,

My sun in the third?

A good guess. (This isn’t such hard stuff after all.)

No, I’m one of the Libra-Aquarian exceptions. Their suns don’t register as easily.

You’ve picked up on my Moon-Pluto conjunction, which is, in fact, in the third. It’s a full moon, which means the Sun-Mercury conjunction is in the 9th.

But in practice, if you had my chart in front of you, with no time, and you were trying to place that Sun-Moon opposition & all you knew about me was that I sell books, publish books & write a newsletter, you would rapidly gravitate to a 3 – 9 axis. You might put the Sun in 3 & the Moon in 9, but as you worked further with the chart (the rising signs, the positions of the other planets), the true state of affairs would become clear to you.

Now. When I was in grade school there was a girl named Cindy who was born the same exact day, month and year. Her father ran the town’s funeral home, which she runs today. Dead bodies downstairs, family upstairs. We delivered their daily newspaper. I have no idea what time of day she was born, and I can no longer reach her, presuming I ever could. Using this one single fact – dead bodies in the house – how would you place the Sun-Moon opposition?

Dave

Yeah, I was wondering if it might be in the ninth.

Cindy: Moon conjunct Pluto in the fourth. She’s now the boss lady, so the sun on the tenth makes sense. And her father was the boss, too; so there again sun in the tenth makes sense. I hope this is correct. What was her mom like, did you know?

Are you on Facebook/Twitter?

I did think of the 8th first! But you said “dead bodies in the house” “bodies downstairs, family upstairs.” But that could well be the Moon-Pluto and, yes, 2-8 make sense.

Thanks a lot , Dave. I enjoyed this mini-tutorial very much!